Paperlegends

[einahpets]

So if any of you don't know, paperlegends had their announcement post today!  Yay! 
I've met the best people through this event, seriously. 

Anyway I was looking through the schedule and I noticed artists now have to submit drafts.
This is actually pretty cool, cause it makes artists more involved. 
But I think there's probably more that would make it a little more involved/better for the artists.

Question for my writer friends and artists too!! --
As it's done now, drafts aren't due until after artist/author matchups happen. 
Before matchups, the 15K word counts are taken in faith.  I can't tell you how many of my artist friends got burned because the author didn't have the suggested amount, and ended up dropping out or the artists were not able to make art to the fullest of their abilities since time is shorter for artists.
I was wondering if submitting a minimum 15K rough draft before match-ups is something you think would benefit your Big Bang experience?
As an artist, I see it as more of a guarantee that you're serious about finishing and I have more confidence going into the anon matchups.  ALSO!  I have so much more material to work with and create beautiful art from.  And please tell me of a writer who doesn't want to see beautiful art?

Question for my artist friends --
How would you feel to have betas required for artists too? 
There are so many talented artists in fandom who would be more than happy to take a look at your in-progress work.
In the past year I started sharing my IP work with fellow Merlin artists and it makes a world of difference. 
Be it for anatomy, composition, perspective issues, coloring, the atmosphere in the piece, how to do a certain technique, etc. 
Having an online critique makes such a difference, and it created such a supportive community. 
It's like an art class, but for free, and on your time!!
Would you guys be interested/supportive of this?

I've already talked to a few friends, but I wanted to see if there were similar/different thoughts from my flist/the Merlin community.

Feel free to pass this along!

Comments

[reni-m.livejournal.com]

Never too late! All comments are appreciated and helpful!

[itzcoatl.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it's way too late to begin mucking about with this year's PL schedule.

Although I am commenting on, and putting forward, various ideas for the future, I SOOOOOO appreciate The Muppets' work on this year's PL and the previous ones. I'm sure everyone would join me in saying that she does a really super job and that nothing said here is a criticism. It's all about throwing around different ways of doing things and having a bit of a discussion.

As you say, after Merlin stops airing, (say it ain't so!!!), then this wouldn't be an issue.

Or, perhaps one could push the whole process back to begin on an earlier month and gain a month at the beginning...?

Mind you, if this next series is the last, then it will all die a death after that anyway. *sobs quietly*

[reni-m.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that's why I brought up suggestions that could be implemented this year without changing the schedule.

Hopefully all these new ideas will be helpful for future BBs!

I don't want it to end!

[reni-m.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that is a huge advantage to pair up beforehand for BBs!
Though hopefully making some changes for the random match-up will make the outcome more successful for all participants.

[reni-m.livejournal.com]

Oh that's true, I forgot that unlike snippets from a story, you'd be able to see the whole piece of art. Even if it was a work in progress we don't want to tell the secret early.

[yue_ix]

These are really good point. I think a lot of authors don't realise how tiny changes can add or nulify tons of work from their artists. Graphics and vids require days of searching for a fitting pre-existing source to edit, often outside of Merlin canon, and then incorporating it in the art coherently. An seemingly incongruous change in the final can mess with all that work. As far as I've been able to ask, it's rare that artists were able to read the whole of their designated story before it was posted. I've been informed that that is sorely the responsibility of the authors, but I think that formally encouraging all parties in a Big Bang to consider the other's deadline more (and saying why, like your comment) would go a long way.

If the artists could be guaranteed a couple of weeks or a month after their base was done, I do think we'd see more art done for the finale or overall of a story, and it'd give them more time to beta it. It'd also give them time to exchange with their author without fear of bothering them when they are rushing to their own deadline, and ore time to plan on how and where this collaborative effort would be posted.

For the support comm for artists, this is something friends and I have brainstormed about before, but I felt that it might accomplish more if art events were siply more held on the already existing support comm paperpushers. There's a lot of artists, authors, betas and cheerleaders issues that other people also working on the same big bang project don't know about. I don't think that a lot of authors even know that artists can have betas, so it's logical they wouldn't think of that when planning their schedule. If they could see that sort of post go up on the support comm though, they'd know for sure and be able to adjust their views. As an artist beta, I've needed time to review people's works, and as a cheerleader I had to be included in conversations from an earlier point than I would have imagined. Last year, I really enjoyed working with both the author and artist as a beta and cheer for both, but that required a lot of communication and gentle poking. It's not something I had even imagined before it came up in a conversation with the author, but it's something I think others might be interested in doing - sharing the same support group, if everyone is willing.

For us all, it could make us realise all sort of factors for other participants that we had never thought of because we've never been in that position.

[altocello.livejournal.com]

Then I should probably add the bit about the Merlin RPF BB, where I got a full rough draft at matchups. The result was that I was able to make art that really reflected the whole story, inspired by 2 scenes at the opposite ends of the fic- the actual illustration was for the last part of the last chapter before the epilogue, and the concept for the rest of it came from the first scene. If I hadn't had that, I would never have approached it the way I did. Here's the link for those whod'd like to look. (http://altocello.livejournal.com/4483.html)

[altocello.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it's too late for this year, but it's a good idea for future events!

[giselleslash.livejournal.com]

;D

Oh lady, right back at ya. You were so wonderful to work with!

[waltzing-mice.livejournal.com]

Like itzcoatl, I'm on the fence about doing the BB. I don't work well rushed, and love added details that fit the writer's description, so I admit to be scared that what happened my fellow artists might hit me this time.

Having a 15K draft would go far in assuaging those fears.

But even if the majority is in agreement, how can it be done?

[reni-m.livejournal.com]

Yeah, nothing is worse than not knowing what will happen.
I'm in agreement, I want to know that I have something to work with.

I think if the word gets spread and find more people in agreement it will go a long way.

If you want link to this post to get a wider audience.

[mellacita.livejournal.com]

Hi there. Here from varioud links on the flist. :)

I think it's a good idea, both the 15K and the artist betas/drafts.

I did the first paperlegends, which was as I recall only 3 or 4 months long? Right after the match up my artist made it clear she needed time and information. I sent her my chapter outlines, character paragraphs, photos of the cast that best reflected the modern AU look of each character, music that was inspiring me as I wrote, photos of the various locations in which it would occur. I sent several updates of the fic along the way. She asked me to finish early, so I finished more than a month early, to give her time. (I'm still burnt out from the experience, LOL.)

In the last month, she stopped replying to my emails except with an occasional "so sorry, I am really busy." I figured she didn't like the fic or something since she was still posting day to day on her journal, which is fine, I can see why people might not have liked it.

In the end, I didn't see any of the art before it was posted (and it was posted late). I liked it, but it didn't include any elements of anything I had sent her and didn't have much connection to the story itself. She also took it down a while back so it's not available any more.

All that to say, more accountability and accomodation for both artist and writer may result in more satisfying collaborations on both sides.

I don't write anymore in Merlin fandom, so it won't affect my participation or not, but those are my $.02. Good luck to everyone in the next round!

[reni-m.livejournal.com]

Thank you for stopping by and adding your thoughts!

I agree, in a fest like this it's always more successful when there is accountability and accommodation. I'm sorry to hear that your experience with an artist wasn't as successful as it should have been. This is where I see having a beta for artists would really help. It's far too easy for an artist to not connect with anyone until it's time to post.
Going in, I'm always aware that it's a joint project. Because of that I'm constantly talking with my writer and showing them my in-progress photos making sure they're involved as well. But if I also had a second pair of artist eyes, my beta would be able to stop me before something 'not fly' got through.

[itzcoatl.livejournal.com]

Did many artists use paperpushers last year to post works in progress? I must admit, I never went there, I know technically it's for everyone, but I had a quick look around and assumed it was more for the writers and talking about word counts and writing progress and so-forth.

[nympha-alba.livejournal.com]

Here via Ella and others - I think the 15k draft is a very good idea and would be helpful not only for the artists but for the writers as well.

[scribblemoose]

I would argue it's up to artists to colonise it - I've never seen an artist treated with anything but respect there.

[yue_ix]

It officially is, but only slowly actually gets there. The very banner text is authors-only: "Write, damn you, write". The round before last, every chat notice, every call for WIPs, every general cheerleading threads - they were all only oriented at authors. I've pointed this out to the mods and, like you said, was told this was something the volunteers there would have to do, which I agree it is. For that reason, I think it's very important that all members of that comm are aware that there's artists in their midst, and that if artists aren't very present right now it's partly because a great deal of them took one look at the comm and saw it wasn't calling to them.

This is a vicious circle, but one that already got a lot better last round because friends and I got up and posted and poked people more. It made me feel like an arrogant and annoying twat to always have to say in chats "and artists!" whenever people talked of posting participants and only meant writers. But I think it helped a bit. This year, it'd be very nice if more people remembered by themselves or if others artists stepped up. That's also why I'm not really for having a different comm for artists and for writers. For one we share a lot of elements, and secondly a big part of the problem is the separation everyone makes and being invisible. Doing our own things in another place would help with neither of those things.

[yue_ix]

That's too bad. *hugs* I hope that if you participate again you'll get to enjoy it more! It's awesome to exchange with you; I'd love to see you in chats through the process.

[yue_ix]

but even if the majority is in agreement, how can it be done?

For the last few rounds now every time I proposed or asked something new for artists in this BB - betas, cheerleaders, pinch-hits - I've been rebuked by the argument that 'no one else has shown interest in those things', and of course something wouldn't be done to cater only to me, no matter that I said I did have friends interested in those things. I think having a post with actual names and arguments list would go a long way in at least backing up any request or claim.

I do dearly hope that the person in charge has been linked to this post.

[scribblemoose]

I wonder whether the problem is compounded by the fact that artists typically start work later than writers, by necessity, and by that stage the writers have their support networks established, making it that much harder for artists to join in?

I agree, it's not the comm itself, and it's not a mod/organiser problem, it's up to us participants- perhaps some of the artists like yourself could organise some friending posts or chats around the time of the matches? That would be a good reminder for us writers, too, that there's a whole vital section of the community that is in danger of being ignored!

[reni-m.livejournal.com]

It can be very overwhelming to make an art post when the community is mostly formatted for writers, and that is no fault of the writers! It's just the nature of the beast. By the time artists are in the picture, writers have been using the community for almost 4 months and it can be very overwhelming for an artist to wade in.
Also, it wouldn't be very practical for artists to share in-progress pieces, at least pieces reaching the final stages. Unlike story snippets, the surprise of the art gets taken away since you're seeing the whole thing. Unfinished yes, but the whole piece is there.
From my experience, it wasn't until last year I had any communication with another Merlin fanartist and that was because of the paperpushers work chats. But I only found out about it because I was reading all the posts and saw how they welcomed all! Which was great! But for an artist who doesn't know other artists, it can feel daunting going in.

[reni-m.livejournal.com]

I agree, the more people involved and supportive of the ideas the better. So please feel free to link this for others to come on by and put in their opinion!

And yes, I linked this yesterday.

[reni-m.livejournal.com]

Thank you for stopping by!

I imagine it can be very overwhelming to have to be on a writing schedule. I know when I work I like checkpoints to keep me on task, and I think a checkpoint like this would do just that for writers!

[reni-m.livejournal.com]

There wasn't much in terms of posting IP work on the community, but I met a good group of fanartists when the work mibbit chats started (actually we liked it so much some of us are still chatting).
Anyway, I'm pretty sure the mibbit chats will start again! And those work chats worked like this - 30 minutes of working 30 minutes of talking. And the best part was getting to know new people!

Anyway, I'm going to talk to a few other artists and see what would be the best way to go about making progress posts for artists in paperpushers.

[scribblemoose]

I really relate to that - even though I'm a writer I'm very shy of joining in and I hate to share work early on because it's usually rubbish. But that's not something the challenge itself can change - it's up to us as participants to make sure we're as welcoming as we can be and to try and think about what it's like for other participants.

Like I said elsewhere here, perhaps a friending post for artists at an appropriate point in the timescale might be helpful?