Paperlegends

[einahpets]

So if any of you don't know, paperlegends had their announcement post today!  Yay! 
I've met the best people through this event, seriously. 

Anyway I was looking through the schedule and I noticed artists now have to submit drafts.
This is actually pretty cool, cause it makes artists more involved. 
But I think there's probably more that would make it a little more involved/better for the artists.

Question for my writer friends and artists too!! --
As it's done now, drafts aren't due until after artist/author matchups happen. 
Before matchups, the 15K word counts are taken in faith.  I can't tell you how many of my artist friends got burned because the author didn't have the suggested amount, and ended up dropping out or the artists were not able to make art to the fullest of their abilities since time is shorter for artists.
I was wondering if submitting a minimum 15K rough draft before match-ups is something you think would benefit your Big Bang experience?
As an artist, I see it as more of a guarantee that you're serious about finishing and I have more confidence going into the anon matchups.  ALSO!  I have so much more material to work with and create beautiful art from.  And please tell me of a writer who doesn't want to see beautiful art?

Question for my artist friends --
How would you feel to have betas required for artists too? 
There are so many talented artists in fandom who would be more than happy to take a look at your in-progress work.
In the past year I started sharing my IP work with fellow Merlin artists and it makes a world of difference. 
Be it for anatomy, composition, perspective issues, coloring, the atmosphere in the piece, how to do a certain technique, etc. 
Having an online critique makes such a difference, and it created such a supportive community. 
It's like an art class, but for free, and on your time!!
Would you guys be interested/supportive of this?

I've already talked to a few friends, but I wanted to see if there were similar/different thoughts from my flist/the Merlin community.

Feel free to pass this along!

Comments

[ella-bane.livejournal.com]

I was wondering if submitting a rough draft before match-ups is something you think would benefit your Big Bang experience?

I really do. More time for the artist means more art for the story!

This is a great post. Your concerns make absolute sense.

[jennybliss.livejournal.com]

Hi, here via ella_bane

I am an artist and I really like the idea of submitting the rough draft before the match-up. It will also give me a better idea where the story is going to go and what would work for the story. Sometimes when I only have 5 pages of the fic and the summery I feel like my art is a stab in the dark.

[reni-m.livejournal.com]

Thank you so much!
And you're totally in agreement with what the writers I asked said.

I actually left a comment on today's paperlegends post (probably jumping the gun, but I want to get some dialog going) but I think starting a discussion and implementing these changes would really benefit.

I really appreciate you linking this.

[giselleslash.livejournal.com]

Here via Ella. :)

I would DEFINITELY be behind turning in rough drafts before writer/artist match-ups. In my opinion it'd take the pressure off knowing I at least had a rough draft finished and that I wouldn't leave my artist in the dust by having to drop out. I don't care if I have to drop out on my own, but having another creator/artist depending on me and my word that I'll finish is pretty stressful. I think it's only fair to the artists as well that they know their writer has a rough draft done. You can say you'll finish all you want but the reality is you don't actually know that you will. Having a rough draft will at least give the writer and the artist something tangible to work with that is much more likely to result in a final (finished) project.

As a writer I have absolutely no objections to having to turn in a rough draft before match-ups.

[cardigankate.livejournal.com]

So... when you say submit the rough draft ahead of time, is that to help the artists choose their favorites? Or just to ensure that a writer actually has 15k words?

I don't have any problem turning in a rough draft, because I think it's good to be held accountable. But I do usually share my draft via google docs with my artist the minute I know who it is. If the artists aren't going to be able to see the drafts ahead of time, I'm not sure how it makes a difference.

I do actually think it would be nice that we have to submit our drafts, though. Because I don't want those same artists (or any others) to have those problems with writers like they did last round.

Am I even making sense anymore?

[reni-m.livejournal.com]

Thank you so much for stopping by!

I've been very fortunate to match up with authors who have a lot of their story written and planned, but I know that it's not always the case. Hopefully by getting this conversation started we can make a change for this year's BB.

[corilannam.livejournal.com]

I like the idea in theory, but for me it kind of depends on the specifics. Do you mean that writers have to have a complete rough draft by May 20th? Or that we have to give our artists the 15-20K that we're supposed to have by that point (which I think is already required)? Or that the match-ups should happen later?

I definitely understand why artists would want the full rough draft in hand before committing to a writer, and I would totally support that if the schedule could be adjusted to give both the writers and artists the full amount of time. But there's no way I'll have the whole thing done by May 20th, so if that were the case, I would have to decline an artist match-up altogether.

[yue_ix]

As an artist, I love betas and cheerleaders, and I love betaing and cheerleading artists. (I'm lumping both things here because the same people have often played either one or both in the past and sometimes the help and support they gave me were very similar.) I'm pretty much always in favour of betas being offered and required for artists for big things.

It's been particularly useful for me for big pieces that have been done over the span of weeks, when under a heavy deadline or when drawing inspiration from an external source. There's often last minute rushes and disconnection from all parts of influences. It distracts me and makes me miss out on very obvious mistakes, or only later realise I tried to put too much into a single frame. It can also plain burn me out and make me want to give up. Betas and cheerleaders are extremely reassuring. It's an external person looking at our work before we release it to a large public, someone to ask questions to, to hold hands with, to discuss and work out particular issues with our work. My works are much better when I can get a beta on it, and for challenges and exchanges I love to aim for the best quality of work I can make. Knowing betas are required pushes me to try newer things because I have a fail safe to look at the piece after and let me know if I'm off-track with it.

[gwyntastic.livejournal.com]

Just butting in here. It isn't required to have 15-20k before artist sign ups it's only encouraged. Which means an artist could get a 5k story in their inbox.

The really weird thing is all other bigbangs ask for rough drafts before artist matching. With just about the same time frame. Since it's only a super rough draft it doesn't have to be prefect it could have huge holes in it. It's just gotta hit the word count.

[yue_ix]

Btw, it wasn't one of the questions for artists, but I'm also in favour of a pre-match-up draft due. Like you I've seen artists who got matched up with writers that didn't have much words written yet, and it made the artists unable to start on any work since there wasn't enough source for them available. To my knowledge they all made it in time for the deadline anyway but they were forced into a much shorter timespan to do their art than they were supposed to have and often ended with lessened enthusiasm for their own final pieces.

[reni-m.livejournal.com]

When I say 'submit a draft ahead a time,' I mean submit a draft confirming they have 15K before they can submit an anon summery for match-ups. I would imagine the one confirming the word count is a mod so everything says anonymous.
As it's set up now 15K is only recommended, not required. And that's where problems arise. As an artist I would feel more confidant going in knowing my writer has words.

You're making perfect sense, and I'm glad you asked what I meant!

[corilannam.livejournal.com]

I have no problem with submitting the 15K!

[gwyntastic.livejournal.com]

That's because you are freaking AWESOME. Which we all knew already.

[reni-m.livejournal.com]

It's not shifting the schedule, it would just be an extra step for artist match ups. Writers wouldn't be required to have a complete story draft. It would be a confirmation to artists that the writers on the anon summery post have been confirmed to have 15K ready.

As Gwyn said above the 15K is only recommended, not a requirement.
I've talked to a few artists, who participated in the past, where their paired writer didn't meet the requested word count in time for match-ups and it wasn't an enjoyable experience.

Ahaha, I think the last thing an artist would like is less time to work on art. As a traditional artist, I can use all the time I can get. Especially since I like to make more than one piece, and it can get quite time consuming. So the schedule is good in terms of that, it would just be nice to have some confidence going in!

[reni-m.livejournal.com]

I edited the question so we get artist's opinion too (because for some reason I didn't say that before posting)!

Exactly, this event is supposed to be fun for all. Yes, it's hard work but it should also be a positive experience for all the participants. I think by having 15K drafts confirmed would prevent a lot of headaches later on and make everyone a lot happier.

[corilannam.livejournal.com]

Submitting the 15K seems perfectly reasonable to me! I guess when I hear "rough draft," I automatically think of a completed (or very nearly completed) draft of the entire story.

But I don't have a problem with saying that only writers who actually have the 15K in hand already (and can prove it) can sign up for an artist. That seems fair to the artists, who don't know what they're jumping into. And it's good motivation to slower writers like me to make sure we keep on schedule.

[reni-m.livejournal.com]

I edited my wording so it was clearer (you can see why I am not a writer XD )!

Thank you so much for your adding to the discussion. As you said it would be a positive change for both writers and artists!

[waltzing-mice.livejournal.com]

Of course you would!

You were an artist's dream-come-true.

[reni-m.livejournal.com]

Thank you for coming by!
And I appreciate the support, I'm hoping this is a change we can get implemented into this year's BB.

[yue_ix]

It's not directly related to this issue, but I've just been pointed to this great post: An Open Letter to Fest Runners: Writing vs Art. It summarises a lot of my feelings about why I don't participate in some fests but do others, and it comes down to feeling like I'm about to embark in a positive and equal experience for all participants. That includes being reassured there are measures to make sure I have a fair amount of time to do an expected size or quality work, and being offered the same tools as the other participants (like check-ins, betas, cheerleaders, inclusion in support events and places).

[reni-m.livejournal.com]

I actually read that article tonight!
It definitely touches upon a lot of problems fests fail to consider.
Thanks for sharing the link here!

[dk323.livejournal.com]

I think requiring 15K before the match-ups are done is a good idea. It's always nice to have a guarantee that someone has reached their goal, which allows the other person to do better at their job. I'm all for artists getting that guarantee and having more time to work on their piece(s) since they'll be able to get a completed story on schedule.

I haven't participated specifically in paperlegends yet as you know, and I wish I were one of those people who wrote faster...it can be a tricky thing, but I think I've done better these last few months at keeping to the deadlines. As long as writer's block doesn't happen, I should be fine.

[viennajones.livejournal.com]

Hi there :)

I wouldn't be opposed to the beta requirement for artists! I have a few artist friends who were incredibly helpful last year, so yeah, I'd support that :)

As for the rough draft before match-ups, I'd like that - not that I've made unpleasant experiences before (I kinda jumped in as an artist last year), but still.

[itzcoatl.livejournal.com]

I think those are all excellent ideas. I've had absolutely smashing authors in Big Bang 2010 and 2011, with brilliant stories going, but through absolutely no fault of their own, one of them didn't finish in 2010, (though luckily I was illustrating more than one story that year), and my author in 2011 didn't finish.

At the moment I'm dithering over whether to do 2012, I was thinking I absolutely, definitely wouldn't...but now that I've seen the main post go up...I'm finding myself getting interested despite myself.

I think the 15K rough drafts are an excellent idea. And as an artist you know you've got something to get going on from the day you're matched up.

I sometimes think it would be nice to have a final date for the stories, where they have to be finished and submitted. And then the final date for the artwork is a month after that. And then they are both posted. Often a story is leading up to a great climax that would be absolutely super to illustrate...but the artist never sees it in time to do anything with it, and is kinda stuck illustrating early/middle scenes in the story.

(At the moment the authors have several months to work in before the artists can get involved. Maybe the artists could have a month at the end to work after the writers have finished.)

The idea of an art beta is a great one. I'd love to have someone I got on well with looking at my WIP and offering advice.

[eyesofapanda.livejournal.com]

I'm not participating (can't do big bangs, oh well, not do I even have the time!), but good luck, bb! I await your offer eagerly! :D